Dive Deeper
Transcript
Episode Overview
Thirty minutes into a call with outside counsel proposing to hire a "professor" to help with a foreign lawsuit, Barbara Barrilleaux still didn't understand what the professor would do. Then she asked the price: multiple millions of dollars, for a scope of work nobody could define.
That gap between an undefined deliverable and an outsized price tag was the signal. She flagged it as a bribery attempt, escalated to her COO, and fired the law firm.
Barbara Barrilleaux
Barbara Barrilleaux is VP Legal and General Counsel at Brooks Running, the performance running brand owned by Berkshire Hathaway. She has led the company's global legal function for more than a decade, running a 15-person team that covers contracts, IP, privacy, and compliance across more than 50 countries.
Key Takeaways
An undefined scope attached to an outsized price tag is the bribery tell. Barrilleaux caught the mismatch when a proposed multi-million-dollar "professor" hire, disguised as an expert-witness retainer, still had no scope of work anyone could name.
Relationships built before a crisis are what get you through it. When a foreign court froze Brooks Running's bank accounts mid-lawsuit, existing banking ties and outside counsel on the ground routed money into the country and kept the business running.
Vet a country's justice system before you expand there. Learn how reliable and predictable local courts are while there is still time to plan around it, the lesson Barrilleaux draws from watching a foreign court freeze Brooks Running's accounts.
Active listening beats the 20-questions approach. Giving clients the context for why you're asking keeps a hard question from feeling like an interrogation.
A lean legal team survives scale by triaging, not staffing up. Barrilleaux's 15-person team covers 50+ countries by reviewing closely only the contracts that clear a real risk bar: dollar value, IP exposure, and data/privacy risk.
The Multi-Million-Dollar "Professor" That Wasn't
Early in her career, Barrilleaux was on a call with outside counsel handling a lawsuit outside the US. The lawyer suggested hiring a professor to assist with the case, which in a US context would be the equivalent of retaining an expert witness who writes a report and testifies.
She asked questions, trying to understand the scope. Only after about 30 minutes of back-and-forth did she ask the cost.
"Finally, after about 30 minutes, I asked how much it would cost, and it was multiple millions of dollars. Immediately I thought, red flag, this is a bribery situation."
She was, in her words, "a baby lawyer at the time," but she went straight to her COO, who confirmed her read immediately.
The company fired the law firm and the lawyer, and found new outside counsel in a different country to handle the case.
When a Foreign Court Froze the Company's Bank Accounts
The scariest moment of Barrilleaux's career came from a separate matter. In a lawsuit she considered frivolous, the opposing party persuaded a foreign court to freeze Brooks Running's bank accounts entirely.
The freeze stopped vendor payments and payroll. She learned about it sitting in a leadership meeting.
"My God, I am the one responsible. I'm the general counsel. That was a scary moment."
Existing relationships got the company through it. Brooks Running's finance team moved quickly to route money into the country through established banking relationships, outside counsel on the ground worked the local legal system, and the company's standing inside the Berkshire Hathaway portfolio gave it banking access a smaller, standalone company might not have had.
"The relationships you build before a crisis are what get you through it."
Her advice to GCs expanding into new jurisdictions follows the same discipline great GCs use to size up risk before a crisis hits: learn how reliable and predictable the local justice system is before operating there, while there is still time to plan around it.
Active Listening Over the 20 Questions Approach
Barrilleaux distinguishes between a lawyer who fires off a checklist of questions and one who is listening for what comes back, including a client's tone and body language. To keep a question from feeling like an interrogation, she explains why she is asking.
"I explain the context of why I'm asking, and that goes a long way... it doesn't feel like you're badgering them with 20 questions. They can relate to why you're asking."
That same instinct that caught the bribery risk is what active listening looks like in practice, she says. It is sustained curiosity, asking one more question until an answer either holds up or falls apart.
How a 15-Person Legal Team Covers 50+ Countries
Brooks Running's legal team has grown slowly and deliberately over more than a decade, adding specialists to complement existing coverage rather than staffing up broadly. Outside counsel is reserved mostly for local trademark and IP work in each country; for most other matters, Barrilleaux prefers to have outside counsel weigh in on a framework rather than outsourcing an entire project.
The team decides what needs legal review using a small set of triggers: dollar value of the deal, whether IP changes hands, and whether the contract touches personal data. A contract that clears none of those bars gets a light touch or none at all.
"We're all trying to do more with less. The legal team isn't growing as fast as the rest of the business."
It's the same lean-team math behind why judgment, not headcount, is becoming the defining skill for in-house counsel: fewer people, sharper triage, and higher-leverage calls.
Recommended Reading
How Great GCs Think About Growth, Risk, and Crisis Management: Tricia Kinney on presenting risk and running a lean, high-value legal team.
Why Judgment Is the New Superpower for In-House Lawyers in the Age of AI: former Unity CLO Anirma Gupta on the same judgment-over-speed thesis.
